| 0:00:00.0 | 13.2s | Dr. Cié Gee | You're listening to For the Record, a registrar podcast sponsored by AACRAO. I'm Cié Gee, Associate Vice Provost for career-engaged learning at UT San Antonio, and this is Holding Doors. |
| 0:00:20.53 | 52.7s | Doug McKenna | Hello. Welcome to For the Record. I'm your host, Doug McKenna, university registrar at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. Being a registrar is an important job, and the role exists at a particular level within institutions. And anyone who's ever gone up through the ranks of an organization or an institution knows that it's not easy, and it's almost never done all by oneself. There are people who guide us, who support us, who challenge us and push us forward. And it's often the same people who see something in us that we may not yet see in ourselves, and they provide opportunities for growth and development. Today, we're going to talk with Doctor CIÉ GEE from the University of Texas at San Antonio about ways that leaders can help by holding the door open. So C, welcome to the podcast. |
| 0:01:13.76 | 6.0s | Dr. Cié Gee | Thank you for having me. This is the best thing that's happened to me all day, so I'm very excited to be here. |
| 0:01:20.45 | 11.3s | Doug McKenna | Fantastic. Well, to kick us off, would you tell us a little bit about you, where you're from, what your job is currently, and then maybe what is career engaged learning? |
| 0:01:32.27 | 129.0s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yes. So I will go way back. I am from a really small rural town in Texas. I'm the proud senior class president of about 60 students. Um, and I found my way to San Antonio as a 17-year-old, um, starting at the University of Texas, San Antonio. So I've really grown up in this institution. I did, uh, teach as a middle school and high school teacher for a while, and then I came back here in 2007. And my career has really been growing up in the registrar's office. Now, when I say growing up, I mean my first year, I broke the shredder, I broke the laminating machine, and an associate dean yelled at me. They were all unrelated incidents, but. I'm still here. So, my current role is not on the enrollment management side of the house. I am associate vice provost for career-engaged learning. What is career-engaged learning, right? Well, in my opinion, I think this is where all colleges need to be heading, especially with our national rhetoric on return on investment of colleges, and is the degree really worth it? I think we spend a lot of time getting students into the university and a lot of time getting students out of the university, but career engaged learning is making sure that they are very career competitive when they get out, contributing to that ROI of going to college. So career engaged learning is. A movement to embed career readiness into multiple engagement points throughout the student life cycle. So specifically at UTSA it's career obviously, but then it's also these other engagement points of career that build marketable skills. So I also oversee community engagement, undergraduate research, pre-health, pre-law, entrepreneurship, and project-based learning. |
| 0:03:41.47 | 2.1s | Doug McKenna | Wow, that is a big portfolio. |
| 0:03:43.83 | 3.2s | Dr. Cié Gee | And I have time to talk to you today, even though I oversee all that. |
| 0:03:47.24 | 5.8s | Doug McKenna | It's amazing. And I also understand that you are a well below average golfer. Is that |
| 0:03:53.0 | 16.1s | Dr. Cié Gee | true? Oh my goodness, you've been doing your research. Yes, I am. But I lettered in golf in high school. Now, I told you it was just 60 students in my class, but that is where my letter jacket came from, and I do still play today. So yes, I am. |
| 0:04:09.63 | 7.0s | Doug McKenna | Fantastic. And UTSA, can you give us a rundown number of students, what type of institution, things it's known for? |
| 0:04:17.29 | 43.0s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yes, there's a lot of exciting things that are going on at, at UTSA right now. If you would have asked me, A few months ago our population would be 36,000, but since we just merged with the UT Health Science Center here in San Antonio, we are now one giant institution, I think of around 40,000 students. Big news, big momentum. Uh, a lot of exciting things are happening here. We are a Hispanic serving institution. We have about 43% 1st gen, and this last year we did just receive our Carnegie R1 status. Nice. So all great things, all great things coming out of San Antonio |
| 0:05:00.60 | 1.3s | Doug McKenna | and close to the riverwalk. |
| 0:05:02.20 | 2.7s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yes, absolutely, and really good food. Yeah, |
| 0:05:05.4 | 22.9s | Doug McKenna | yeah, for sure. We could talk about food on the riverwalk and all the things, but you wrote a book titled The Door Holder, The Art of Leadership Navigation, Transforming Challenges into Opportunities, and I'd like to talk a little bit about it today. So, would you tell us a little bit about it? I'm gonna ask a bunch of questions about it, and then sort of what inspired you to write it? What led to the book? |
| 0:05:28.42 | 88.5s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yes, I would love to talk about it because it's really been one of those things that just sort of happened. And it was kind of a backwards way on, on how it happened. So I'll explain it to you in the backwards approach. So, in 2019, I became head of this brand new division of career engaged learning. That had all of these grand initiatives and metrics and things to meet. I also didn't say I was also or am still also the director of the QEP or the Quality Enhancement Plan. A lot going on. So, we all know what happened in 2020. So the pandemic hit, then at our institution, we had layoffs. Then we had budget reductions. So, fun times, right? Through all of this, a lot of things were happening with all of these areas that were in career engaged learning, and a lot of it was really, really good. There was a lot of progress. So I started thinking, there is a lot of bad in the world right now, but this job and this team is really good. Pretty good, yeah. And on contrast, I have worked in other areas where there is a lot of good going on in the world, but that job and that team was not so good. So let me ask you a question. Yeah, I would assume that you have had multiple jobs in your career. |
| 0:06:57.17 | 1.3s | Doug McKenna | Yes, that's accurate. |
| 0:06:58.77 | 7.3s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yeah, probably a variety of different things, right? And I can also assume that you have had good jobs and bad jobs. |
| 0:07:06.42 | 2.0s | Doug McKenna | Yes, categorically, yes, |
| 0:07:08.51 | 23.8s | Dr. Cié Gee | you know, in the simplest terms, good and bad. Good meaning you come to work excited, you get to be innovative, it just, you, you feel that flow, you're happy, right? Bad meaning you just go home crying, you're scouring higher ed jobs, you know, all those things. OK, and I'm gonna ask you, and listeners can comment in their head. What did it feel like in the good job? |
| 0:07:32.94 | 49.8s | Doug McKenna | For me, I think it felt like I had found a place where people got me and that I was able to make a contribution, a meaningful contribution in some way. And it felt good. Those were, I mean, those are good feelings, and you feel like you're in a position that is doing something important. I have been in higher ed for 25 years now. Before that, I worked for IBM for about 4 or 5 years, and I feel like the work that I'm doing today means something. And so for the good jobs that I've had. I feel like I'm able to make a contribution, and I feel like that contribution is both valuable, but also valued and so seen and recognized. |
| 0:08:22.97 | 11.5s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yeah, and I love how you said someone got you, that we all just want to be gotten or understood. OK, then, what did it feel like in the bad job? |
| 0:08:34.58 | 16.4s | Doug McKenna | Oh, I would say the opposite of that where you're, I was frustrated. I felt, I felt like I had to watch my back. I felt like I had to be very careful about things that I said or did, and it didn't feel good. It wasn't great. Yeah, |
| 0:08:51.7 | 60.2s | Dr. Cié Gee | it almost sounds like not feeling safe, in a, in a certain way. Yeah, absolutely, and I would echo, um, in, in my various positions. I've had lots of different things over the years that there were instances of good and bad with those same types of feelings. So, so I kept thinking, what makes a healthy team? What makes that good team, and what makes an unhealthy team? And so here's the backward part of the story. It was like I'd already written the book in my head. I just had to go back and remember that I had this in there. Way back, I was teaching a leadership class and I was trying to convey to the students what leadership was, and I really like to use metaphors. And so I was trying to think of a metaphor that could explain leadership in a way that would stick with somebody. And so I told them a story, and that became the basis of the door holder. And so I would like to tell you the story today. I |
| 0:09:51.26 | 1.0s | Doug McKenna | love stories. Tell me |
| 0:09:52.25 | 9.1s | Dr. Cié Gee | the story. Stories are how we remember things. Well, let me ask this. Did you go to a big, big elementary or a tiny? Are you a city kid, rural kid? |
| 0:10:02.14 | 75.4s | Doug McKenna | My dad was in the military. So I grew up on army bases, and then when I went to high school. School, it was a high school off post in Highland Falls, New York, and I graduated with 106 people. So there are about 400 people in my high school in, in comparison. I think that's a small school for high school. Um, my wife graduated from a high school, a complex where there were two high schools literally in the same set of buildings, and she graduated with like 2000 people and her twin brother. Graduated from the other high school, the adjoining high school, also with about 2000 people. So like 4000 people in that high school split up into two. Mine graduated with 106 people. So I'm gonna be on the smaller side of high school, the smaller side, yeah. And then college, I tell people I went to a small Catholic school in Northern Indiana, and at the time. Notre Dame was a reasonably small. There were 8000 undergrads when I was there. It's much bigger now, but still, I knew everybody, practically everybody in my graduating class. So there are about 2000 people that I graduated with for college. So I don't know where that puts me. |
| 0:11:17.65 | 70.2s | Dr. Cié Gee | From your, well, from my point of view, that's ginormous. So I'm gonna take us back to my rural little town in my tiny little elementary school because this is where the story comes from. And uh, you may have done this in elementary school. Um, so if you have, you can, you can let me know. One of the highlights as a 5th grader, cause in elementary school, the 5th graders were the, the, the old kids on the block, so to speak, you know, before we moved on to middle school or junior high, however you call it. One of the most exciting things about being a 5th grader in my mind was coming to school, walking into the classroom, and seeing who had been chosen to be the line leader for the day. Now, the way that you knew was your name was written in cursive on a little laminated square to the right of the door. And that's, that's some authority right there. Your name is by the door and you are the line leader. Now my little elementary might have been tiny, but we had a lot of destinations that we had to go to during the day. So the line leader led all of the students to recess. I usually got first on the swing |
| 0:12:27.89 | 1.0s | Doug McKenna | responsibility, yeah, |
| 0:12:29.13 | 28.0s | Dr. Cié Gee | yeah, absolutely. We gotta get out there. This is important. The line leader led everyone to gym, and so when I was a line leader, I could get a firm basketball instead of all of the flat ones that everybody passed over. You led the line to lunch, so you're the first one in. And if it was taco boat day, you could go back and get seconds. Taco Boat was the thing in my school. I know every school had their favorite |
| 0:12:57.8 | 2.3s | Doug McKenna | lunch, the meal, yeah, yeah. |
| 0:12:59.71 | 139.4s | Dr. Cié Gee | And then after school, you led the line out, and so you would be the first one out. Leading the line was easy. It was fun. It was pretty low responsibility, and you felt super important. Because you were the first to everything, and somebody had put you in a position of authority. But the next day, you came in, your name was still to the right of the door, but it had been moved down, and somebody else was the line leader for that day, and you were the door holder. I hated being the door holder because their responsibility was to stand behind the line leader and hold the door for the entire class. So that meant I was the last person to recess, no spot on the swings. I was the last person. The gym, flat basketball. I was the last person to lunch, and I was the last person out at the end of the day. And it wasn't just holding the door, you had the responsibility to make sure that that entire class got to the destination. Inevitably, someone would stop and tie their shoe or randomly stare off into space or fall down. It's elementary school, that's what we did. And you would have to wait. To make sure that everybody got through the door. Now, when I started my professional career, I was looking for those line leaders. That person bursting through, out in front, all the authority. But then I started to notice something. Out of those two roles, which one is really more important? It's the door holder, because if you get to your destination and your line isn't behind you, you're alone. Progress is not made. People aren't achieving. And so I suddenly started thinking about, wait a minute, if I'm bleeding, it is my responsibility to cultivate this person, get them ready to walk through the door, show them the door, show the vision past the door. And so, that idea that was a simple story from elementary school, sort of evolved into this book and sort of the philosophy of being a door holder. |
| 0:15:19.84 | 15.4s | Doug McKenna | Right on. Tell me a little bit about your approach to leadership then. How do those observations about the different roles and the way that they interact, how did that inform what you think leadership is today? |
| 0:15:35.41 | 35.6s | Dr. Cié Gee | I have done so many studies on leadership, so to speak. It's basically what my doctorate is in, if you want to say doctorate in leadership. I've led leadership development programs. There's a bunch of theories and all of those different types of things. And what was getting to me is that I think that leadership is actually really hard to define. There's a lot of different types. There's servant leadership and charismatic, and visionary, and narcissistic. Believe it or not, narcissistic leadership is a thing. Oh, |
| 0:16:11.21 | 1.2s | Doug McKenna | oh, I think we all believe it. |
| 0:16:13.33 | 101.8s | Dr. Cié Gee | Absolutely. But the measurement of this is not assessed very quickly, because leadership has developed over time. And it's measured through experience and it's very longitudinal and it's very, very messy. So I think the first thing on me and understanding leadership is that it is going to be messy, you know, you're not always going to have the answers. I think that's what I really learned from the pandemic. I'm not gonna have all the answers. I'm not gonna know the right thing to say. And sometimes that's OK. And so if I define it, I define it three ways through 3 different characteristics. I think that you have to be honestly self-aware. Uh, if you're leading anybody, and you don't have to have a title on the org chart with people under you to be a leader, just wanted to throw that out there. Because just if somebody gives you a fancy title, that doesn't mean that you're done or you're it, and you can just sit back, set it and forget it. Continuous improvement is a must. Number 2, you have to care about the improvement of others. You have to see their potential, and you have to be willing to put time and energy into developing that potential. If somebody hadn't done that with me when I broke the shredder and the laminator, and the associate dean yelled at me, I wouldn't be here where I am today. And number 3, you have to be vulnerable. I'm not saying tell all your deepest, darkest secrets, but you have to be human. Cause authenticity is so much better than an imaginary cape, not superheroes. I think if we're just real, that makes much more of a professional connection. |
| 0:17:55.34 | 48.6s | Doug McKenna | Yeah, I have a couple of things that I would add there. When you say it's your responsibility as a leader to develop, to see the potential and develop the potential, and I would expand on that and say I think that it's important to take time to look for the potential in people because sometimes there are, there are some rock stars who stand out and they're like that person. Person's going places. But then a lot of times there are other people who are quietly going about being awesome, and it takes a little to see the effort that they're doing or the work that they're doing, the contributions that they're making, and then sort of dig in a little and say, all right, how do I get through to this person and help them see what I see. And then 2, no capes, no capes. |
| 0:18:44.55 | 73.1s | Dr. Cié Gee | No capes, yeah, you're, we're not superheroes, we're just, we're just humans. But absolutely, because what you said about taking the time to find where people shine, I think is, is so important. And I know that in my experience, as I'll say, growing up in the registrar's office, there were people that took that time. There are things that I was really, really not very good at, just because that was not my aptitude. But I had this space, this, this safe space to try some different things, and there were things that I was really good at. And that allowed me to soar and grow. And so I think we're all concerned with output and deliverables and all of those types of things, and I think we forget that people are the ones that make those things happen and we can have a fancy CRM and we can have a fancy student information system and all of that stuff, but if, if you're not investing time in the people and really getting to understand. Who they are, where they're coming from, uh, as you said earlier, getting them, it, it, it's not gonna get as much traction as it would if you did spend the time doing that. |
| 0:19:58.4 | 41.2s | Doug McKenna | Yeah. I think this is a good spot to dig in a little, and we could go two different directions here. I'm interested in your career. You've done a bunch of different things, including being the president of SACRAO, which is a super large regional association. Maybe walk us through sort of your career, but in through the lens of this is the layered question of who or in what cases was there someone who held the door open for you or pushed you through a door that you didn't know that you were ready to go through. |
| 0:20:39.67 | 177.4s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yeah, we could be here all day talking about this because Uh, you know, I, I should write a book on, I, I think the registrar's office is, I did write a book, a different book on the registrar's office. I think it's the, the unsung hero of the university. All my heart will always be there, and the people that I met through TACRAO, my Texas association, and SACRAO and AACRAO, I'm still connected with, and I could name, I could name 1000 people to answer your question, yes, I started in the registrar's office as a graduation coordinator. And so I printed diplomas and I did commencement lineup. And I think the thing I value the most is I don't, I know at the time I didn't realize that people saw potential in me. And it was the tiny little things that they did that helped build my confidence, uh, support me. It wasn't showing me how to use our banner system. It wasn't training me on that. That's a skill I can learn. It was believing in me if I had an idea, or letting me know it was OK when I made a mistake, those types of things. I remember the registrar was very encouraging of me getting involved. In the associations. And TACRAO was my very first conference that I went to. I was scared to death. I speak all the time, but go back, you know, almost 20 years. My first conference presentation, I remember I made the PowerPoint and I did the colors, but when I got it up in the room, it looked like another school's colors. I was like, oh my gosh, this is terrible. But in the front row were about 12 people from my office. That's awesome. And, and they believed in me and they were there cheering me on. And then fast forward several years when I got the call from Sacro asking if I would be president, I still remember in our office. I just walked out in the hall and I screamed the registrar's name, and he popped out of the door and I said, I'm gonna be president of SACRAO. And he was like, Yeah, and then the whole office was like, yeah, and it, I mean, come on, that, that's little. That's just believing that you can. Little, little things. So, yeah, on people guiding me along the way, it, it wasn't, wasn't huge grand gestures or phrases or things like that. It was seeing me. Understanding my strengths and where I needed, uh, help with my weaknesses or where I had opportunities and holding that door for me. They saw the places I needed to go before I even knew they were there. |
| 0:23:37.36 | 87.0s | Doug McKenna | I think some of what you're saying really resonates with me in the sense that I think about the Mother Teresa quote, not everyone can do great things, but we can do small things with great love. And when I think about leadership and reflect on the ways that I try to show up as a leader, that is definitely something like it's not always. The super giant, you know, banner in the sky trailing the plane, that's like, this is happening, but it's sometimes just like authentically going up to someone and saying, I think you did a really good job on that. I would like to see you think about doing that more, or, you know, I have this thing that I think you would be good at, would you be interested in trying it? Those are ways that I think leaders. Have opportunities every day to influence people who work with them and for them, and I don't think we acknowledge that maybe as much as we need to, that that that's part of leadership, that's part of the responsibility that we have as leaders. And so I, I really like what you've said about like it's not just, it's not all grand gestures, it's not all wild and crazy things, it's, it's sometimes. Just recognizing someone's ability and saying I believe in you and then supporting them through the thing that you're asking them to do. So it's really |
| 0:25:04.33 | 98.7s | Dr. Cié Gee | good and the reason we don't do it is because we don't have the time or we don't think we have the time. We get so bogged down in deadlines and deliverables and enrollment reporting or whatever. pausing and taking the time to specifically and sincerely acknowledge the contributions of another person, and I'm also gonna bring up opportunities for growth, because I talked about all of the, the, the wonderful things, you know, that I did, but then I also messed up and I had people say, hey, Oh, you've messed up too, yeah, we've all, everybody messes up, yeah, no capes. Maybe you should change the title to no capes. See, being a door holder is more than just encouraging people with opportunities. You have to create this environment. You have to create a space, a, a space of psychological safety where you can have conversations when things aren't going amazing. Because if you don't, then that's toxic positivity and that's a whole other podcast. But if you create this space where when things aren't going well and you can have a conversation about it and, and, and figure it out. Without hurt feelings or blame or anything like that, you approach it with positive intent. That's where the real magic happens, because it is, it is, it's easy to be like, oh, you're doing amazing, blah blah blah. But to say, hey, I've seen a decline here, or I've noticed lack of deliverables here, or I've noticed an attitude shift here, what's going on? How can I support you? That is where real growth happens. |
| 0:26:43.50 | 64.9s | Doug McKenna | Yeah, and that, and that gets, I think, to the, the secondary part of the title of like transforming those challenges into opportunities where you see that someone is struggling with something and again authentically with good intention, positive intention. Address that something in a way that is inclined to a positive outcome. So what does that mean? Means like you don't call him out in a meeting, you address things in a way that will maintain that safety, um, the psychological safety and have the best possibility for a receptive audience from that person and especially when you go in and you say, look, I need to talk to you about something. And it's not gonna be comfortable, but I want you to know that I'm coming at this from this perspective, and my hope is that you can hear what I'm saying and that we can work together to move this to a different place or do it, do something different here, and I think that makes a big difference. Those are hard conversations. |
| 0:27:48.64 | 64.4s | Dr. Cié Gee | Sure they are, but they're super needed. And I'll make the point that it doesn't have to be, the hard conversation doesn't have to come from the leader. The book starts out, the first chapter is called Why Do You Hate Me? And that's when my direct report asked me that. Oh, no, and it's, it's a beautiful story. She is now registrar at another institution. We laugh about this. She has a copy of the book. It's one of those things that needed to happen. And thank goodness, and I'm not praising myself cause I did do some stuff wrong to get us to why do you hate me. But having that self-awareness to hear her out and reflect on myself as a really new green leader about what message was I sending that was unintentional. And so, the door holding philosophy isn't one way, and, and anybody on the, on the org chart can do it. And sometimes you're holding the door for somebody else, and sometimes you're walking through the line. I mean, it is a very cyclical process. |
| 0:28:53.23 | 32.2s | Doug McKenna | Yeah, it's not always your name in cursive at the top. No, it's not at all. It's interesting. Let's talk a little bit about sort of the applicability of the skills or qualities in the role of the registrar and how those expand into higher ed overall because you've now worked in the registrar's office and now you have moved out of the registrar's office and you're doing. Different things. What did you glean from your time in the registrar's office in order to be successful in the position and the work that you're doing now? |
| 0:29:25.92 | 180.2s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yeah, and that's a beautiful question, and that's something that I did not realize coming over into this position, because I will be completely honest with you, I was absolutely terrified. To move out of enrollment management into the other side of the university. I had never done anything with career. I didn't know anything about pre-law or health professions or entrepreneurship, and I was terrified. And that's one of those moments that I had to talk myself down and be like, they hired you for a reason. So, obviously, you're meant for this because Being in the registrar's office for so long, from 2007 to 2018, I guess it's a really long time and sort of the mindset and the things of how you look at things in the institution in that office and the accuracy that you have to have and the taking into consideration if you make this change, who is it gonna impact across the institution? How is it gonna impact the student? How is it gonna impact reporting like all of these different things that you think about. So, I just took that for granted. So I came over into this new area also with the QEP and suddenly I started looking at things and it was almost, I'm trying to think of an example where like a lens goes over and like you see it through like a registrar lens or something like that. That's suddenly, suddenly what started happening. And, and I would ask these questions, and people were like, oh, I don't know. I never thought about it that way. And suddenly I realized that I have this whole other little file cabinet in my mind that is unique to registrry people. So great. that I could dig through. And then suddenly they would ask me questions, and I was like, I know how to do that. Cause it was like a banner where you banners our student information system. I was like, I know how to do that. And then I would ask about their data and the accuracy of it and where they got it, and they were, they were just like, why are you asking about this? And so suddenly, I mean, those are little things, but it's sort of a It's a mindset on how you view where something sits within the institution and how its operations impact other operations. And I saw the value of a registrar mindset so much that I created a position. I wanted to call it registrar of career engaged learning, but I thought that might be confusing. So I called it director of operations, and I stole a registrar from another institution. I won't say where. And now they're being amazing. And I don't think we talk about that enough in the registrar world of your transferability to other areas of the institution, because you have this little, this is where the cape might come in, because you have this little superpower, I think, of, of seeing things a bit differently because the nature of the position is that you just have to, you have to see it that way. |
| 0:32:26.47 | 16.6s | Doug McKenna | I don't know if you've seen any of the terrible Predator movies like with the original one with Arnold Schwarzenegger. OK, yeah, so it's like when they, when the Predator switches over and is like views on the ultraviolet spectrum, the. |
| 0:32:43.9 | 3.5s | Dr. Cié Gee | Where they can see if you have a disease or something. Yeah, |
| 0:32:46.82 | 21.5s | Doug McKenna | that's sort of what registrars do when we can drill through like the several different is this a FERPA thing? Is this a data integrity thing? Is this a student service thing? Is this a, you know, that is exactly how I think about it. And it's very gratifying to hear you say, then the lens went over and I was like, shook, yes, exactly. |
| 0:33:08.70 | 3.2s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yes, so we registrars are predators. Let's, we'll we'll. |
| 0:33:13.83 | 4.8s | Doug McKenna | I don't know if that's exactly the point that I was trying to make, but yes, |
| 0:33:18.77 | 47.3s | Dr. Cié Gee | that's, no, it's exactly it. You can see things from a different lens, and I think that's very valuable. I, I also think universities are changing so much. The, the traditional pipeline of you come in. You know, maybe as an associate registrar, and then you wait until the registrar retires because they're not gonna leave, and then you move up into that position or if you come in on admissions, you're an admissions recruiter and then maybe you're assistant director and then maybe you move up to director and enrollment manager. I think we need to look at that differently. And I think people in those positions need to look at that differently, that the changing of the institution and how more of the silos are becoming not silos. There's so many more opportunities for cross exposure, cross learning, however you want to say it. |
| 0:34:06.28 | 66.7s | Doug McKenna | Yeah, I was, when you were gesticulating, I was gonna go with cross engagement, but agreed, totally agree, and I think it's interesting. I say it all the time, and it's not even my statistic, it's AACRAO's statistic that is like 40% of registrars are gonna retire in the next 10 years, and that I've been saying that probably for 10 years, so maybe I need to update the stat or AACRAO does cause it's not my statistic again. Like I didn't make that up, but the way that registrar's offices have evolved, and I think are going to be forced to continue to evolve based on some of the demographic shifts in the job market, I think it'll be very interesting for people with registrar experience to be able to say, I know this, this, this and this and this and this about the institution. And I can do a bunch of different things across the institution. So I, I just think it's interesting and it's great to talk to you about your experience now having landed in and how long have you've been in that position? |
| 0:35:13.20 | 1.6s | Dr. Cié Gee | Since 2019. So what is that about |
| 0:35:14.85 | 17.7s | Doug McKenna | 5 years, yeah, 6 years. OK, so that's, so you're established in it and you've had a sense of this is how this works, this is what I do here, and you've had the opportunity to draw on experiences from your time in the registrar's office. So I think that's, I think that's wonderful. |
| 0:35:32.78 | 46.3s | Dr. Cié Gee | And it's funny, I even still draw from things that back when I was just, you know, a graduation coordinator. There, there's things that even that has put some kind of little nugget in my brain of wisdom that I will go back to every now and then. And, and it's, it's also kind of comical at my institution. I used to be the one of the youngest ones. I was the youngest one in the registrar's office when I started. Now I'm an old man of the seat. Like, I look around the, the room and I have been here 18 years, and there's been a huge turnover and shift. A lot of people retired during the pandemic and all that. And so, also, I have this weird institutional knowledge about things and it's like, well, look what happened. Suddenly, I'm the wise one. You've |
| 0:36:19.8 | 46.2s | Doug McKenna | accumulated all of it. It's amazing. And I still, I mean, I'm only 27. I haven't been 27 for probably 27 years, but in my brain I'm still 27, and then my knees and hips are like, you haven't, no, this is not a thing. It also doesn't help because I've had gray hair since high school, but I've been more distinguished now lately, now that I've sent a kid off to college for the very first time. I am having that similar experience. Like I used to be a very, I was a younger person when I got into the registrar's office and would look around and be like, they've been here forever, and now I'm that person, so. It happens, but we're keeping our youthful mentality. |
| 0:37:05.94 | 5.9s | Dr. Cié Gee | I work around a bunch of youthful students who have slang that I don't understand, but you know, |
| 0:37:12.29 | 11.2s | Doug McKenna | I get all of my slang from it used to be middle school field trips, and now my daughter is in high school, so. It's the same group of kids who are gonna, you know, skibidi riz me off. |
| 0:37:23.62 | 0.0s | Dr. Cié Gee | Well, |
| 0:37:23.71 | 0.3s | Doug McKenna | Skibidi, |
| 0:37:24.6 | 1.9s | Dr. Cié Gee | I don't think skibidy is cool anymore. No, |
| 0:37:26.6 | 12.8s | Doug McKenna | I know that's every time I try to get caught up with any particular slang, it fails. But then I intentionally use things that will embarrass my daughter because that's also a responsibility that I have as a parent. |
| 0:37:39.34 | 5.8s | Dr. Cié Gee | So no, that's a fun thing to do, yeah, for sure, my two boys, um, absolutely, for sure. |
| 0:37:45.59 | 12.8s | Doug McKenna | So do you have any closing words of wisdom and advice for people about how to become a door holder, being a door holder, or appreciating the door holders in one's life? |
| 0:37:58.84 | 148.5s | Dr. Cié Gee | Yeah, and first I think I'll say about finding your door holders. Mhm. It doesn't have to be at your institution. Uh, the world of registrar is quite small across the country. Generally every institution has one, and so you can strike up a conversation with anybody saying, Oh, you go to this, you're from this school. Do you know blah de blah, the registrar? I do that all the time, even now. Get involved in something that is some kind of an association, so you can make acquaintances across the country or across your state. Because sometimes the role of a door holder is just someone that you need to have a conversation with, and you can't have that conversation with someone at your own institution for various reasons. I remember there's, there's a woman that is affiliated with Sacro, who has been such a door holder for me. And I had found out there was this whole thing about, in this current job, um, a raise and someone was making more and blah, blah, blah. And I said, I, I called her and I said, I think I really wanna ask for a raise. I've never asked for a raise. I don't know how to do that. And she totally led me through. This whole thing. I couldn't, I can't ask anybody at my institution that, you know, because that's sensitive, sensitive, but I can ask her. So, keep your eyes open because most of the time, the people that are holding the door for you, you're not even gonna realize it until you're years down the road. And if you listen to this podcast, and you're thinking of somebody that has held that door for you, reach out to them and say, remember this time you did this thing that made me feel so supported. Thank you. Because you know what you just did? You just held the door for them. Maybe they were having a bad day, or just that little word of like, hey, I made a difference in somebody's life, makes them feel better. And then the last thing I think is having a little bit of empathy. If anything, our world right now needs a little bit of empathy. And that's not sympathy, it's empathy. Just like you said at the beginning of this podcast on the job that made you feel good, they got you. Just trying to understand where somebody is coming from, and realizing that and starting the conversation from there, rather than being judgy or confrontational, or something like that. Just have a little bit of empathy. It goes a really long way. |
| 0:40:27.53 | 77.8s | Doug McKenna | It does, and I would say the world needs much more than a little bit of empathy. We could all do with a lot of empathy, both receiving and giving. Yep, it's a positive feedback loop that I encourage you to engage in, all of you. See, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been fantastic. I appreciate you being here. Yeah, I'm gonna put a link to your site and to the book on the show notes page. So if you are listening and are interested, you can track down those links on the show notes either on the AACRAO site or on the Buzz Sprouts site. Thank you. I love the idea that leadership involves acts of service and that those acts don't have to be grand gestures. Thanks again to Doctor CIÉ GEE for sharing her reflections on leadership and service and get out there and hold some doors for people. Thanks for listening. We recorded this in the first week of the fall semester, and it is a crazy busy time. Don't be too crazy busy to pause for a moment here and there to catch your breath, to check in with yourself, and to check in with the people around you who are most important to you. We talked about how the world could use a little more empathy, sprinkle a little into the lives of those around you. |
| 0:41:51.50 | 8.5s | Doug McKenna | Until next time, drink some water, stretch your legs, don't comply in advance. I'm Doug McKenna, and this is for the Record. |